May 14, 2008

How many people do a search for something on google looking for the wikipedia result? I guess its a bit of a chicken and the egg scenario? Does wikipedia have a brand because of SEO or does their brand make their seo?

@brian

Agreed. If anything, I think portals, "redirection" sites and informational sites, like Wikipedia and shopping engines, still benefit from a brand. Ecommerce and "destination" sites do not.

But even with Wikipedia's brand power, so many users start with search instead of just searching within Wikipedia. If Wikipedia's SEO disappeared overnight, would the strength of their brand remain? Would the users start going to them directly? Or would they start using whatever Google "told" them was Wikipedia's replacement?

You must be kidding, surely? Search creates no demand, brands do. Look at most search campaigns (paid). Highest converting words? Branded terms 9 times out of 10. Why is that? Because a good brand creates preference and loyalty.

Search is a great marketing medium but discounting the effectiveness and value of a good brand is a clear overstatement. How those brands get built has changed, to be sure, but the value of a good brand may be more valuable than ever.

@Eli Feldblum

I agree with your argument and you do make some valid points, however I think you also gloss over some major flaws in your theory.

This first being that I would be interested in finding out the percentage of people who purchase an Apple iPod (although not technically an mp3 player as such), did so without researching into how good the alternatives are, and simply purchased it on its ‘brand’ name (and possible recommendation).

I actually, like you mentioned researched into the marked and purchased a great creative Zen mp3 player, however I consider myself quite savvy and ‘out-of-the-norm’

A second example is if you wanted to purchase a games console, you would not go to a search engine and search for ‘games consoles’ you would immediately start to research into the PS3, Xbox 360, Nintendo wii or PSP. This is because of the branding and marketing that they have completed.

@Neil

I certainly agree that is power to product brands, like iPod or Wii, but where you purchase them online is still a matter of SEO, not branding. I'd be happy buying an iPod from someplace other than an Apple Store and a Wii from someplace other than a Nintendo Store. I think you would be too.

SEO still leads to the sale in a way that branding bobselectronics.com doesn't.

I think you're too quick by half to declare branding dead. Your premise is flawed in that you are taking too narrow a view and applying it to all product marketing.

For example, what about the soft drink industry? When I'm thirsty, I don't do a search of the term "soft drinks," read what others have said, and then make my purchasing decision. I go down to the soft drink machine and plop in my 65 cents for a Diet Coke, because, among other things, branding has conditioned me to prefer Diet Coke.

Also, what about the technique of buying your competitor's brand name or product name as a keyword as a means of getting click traffic to your site? Seems like this is less about SEO and more about branding.

SEO is just one of many tools that a smart marketer uses to promote the brand and ultimately sell product.

This article is intelligent, and I agree with its premises. A brand must be more than a fuzzy promise; it must represent something which is objectively superior in the white hot light of the market!

But how does this explain Google's own branding appeal? I mean -- come on -- is Google really that much better a search engine than Yahoo or Live or even Ask? The main thing that keeps Google's query share up is habit - or more precisely a neuromuscular reflex that we've all gotten used to!

That's it: brand as habit - how the mighty have fallen!

Shhhhh - Don't tell Apple that more people are searching for the term MP3 player then they are the ipod?

Branding is not on the way out - Branding is evolving. With the squeeze that Google is putting on organic rank by implementing the one box and Yahoo still displaying Paid Inclusion Ads. SEO listings are getting tougher.

Five years ago Jim's Pharmacy could be getting a high rank. Now the Big Brands like Target now understand the internet and are seeing that rank improve because they have improved their brand marketing online - including SEO.

The big brand retailers make deals with the other brand products for better placement on catalog and potentially online placement.

Branding has been around for hundreds of years -I.E www.ivory.com - For more than 125 years, Ivory has been bringing timeless values like good, clean fun to American families.

Products and their brand will long outlast us and the Brand will always trump and organic listing over time. Just keep watching as the Internet evolves and more Telivision like portals explode in the marketplace. People will be watching and not spending time searching...and when their watching - Someone will definately be paying money to brand!

As a professional SEO I have to disagree that branding is on it's way out. Branding is so important to companies. Branding comes into play with package design, logo design, radio / TV commercials, print ads, etc. If you don't have a cohesive brand, you are potentially segmenting your client base instead of pulling them together.

Your example of Sony is a good one, but remember, had they marketed the Discman in some non-branded offshoot of Sony, they wouldn't have had the reputation enhancement to their own brand from such a great product. Just think if "discman"and "walman" were their own offshoots of Sony and not branded as Sony products. Sony would never have realized full credit for their industry changing products.

In the drop-shipped world of the internet branding is really important. There are SO many different companies selling the exact same thing on the web, if you don't have a well regarded brand, someone's just going to go to the store they recognize.

I believe that SEO is here to stay, and so is branding. There's so much more to branding than what you see on the web. If anything, SEO and internet marketing are going to have to evolve more to encompass traditional forms of marketing as the internet becomes more and more a part of everyday life.

I think we all know this is a load of bollox dreamt up by some self proclaimed "famous people" just to get some attention....

To be honest I've been in the SEO biz since 1997 and watched it all evolve and never had a brand - only recently doing so and I was booked up the wazoo........

D

If you think that CNet or Consumer Reports isnt also influenced by branding, your a not being honest.

I have been a product reviewer for several audio publications for more than 15 years - and no matter how impartial I try to be, all things being equal - a well promoted and branded product will get the benefit of the doubt. These products have long standing reliability that been established over the long haul - and while your no name mp3 player might have as good long and positive a track record...if no one knows about them, they arent going to get the same benefit.

Branding is vital to this process - and I would be dishonest and inhuman if said that branding doesn't influence my opinions.

Eli,

You are right in the fact that branding is on the way out for small business or small sectors. However on major industries it still is about branding and always will be.

The reason most major companies that have great distribution and have very little competition because of branding. Like Coke or Pepsi for example. These are major brands that spend millions a year to keep brand recognition alive. I don't see where SEO is going to change that, SEO will only affect niche products or services in which the consumer is searching for.

Viral is probably one of the best forms of advertising or marketing (WORD OF MOUTH IS KING). Which companies like Apple has been taking advantage for years for creating awesome cutting edge products.

Valid point. Long live SEO!

I agree with Eli, branding is secondary to search (within reason). Focus on the long tail terms, and you will get the traffic. How well your site/landing pages (and cart) are designed, will determine how well you convert. Include your company name in PPC ads (or at least make it prominent in the URL) to get your name out there. Also include you company name occasionally on your pages and customers will look for your store by name at some point. In my industry, the products are not branded. Don’t forget the niche markets. You have less competition, it is easier to rank for in natural SEO, and you will gain a following. You may have a smaller audience, but they will love you more. There, just follow this and you will make millions.

Folks, to have this argument is to have a complete misunderstanding of what a "brand" is. A "brand" is built based on each and every touch point a person has with you, your product, idea, etc. SEO is one part of brand building.

That being said, SEO certainly can't replace "brand". SEO is just an exercise to gain and maintain organic results on search engines. It's the new phone book on steroids. It's how people find the product information, product choices or specific brands they are searching for. Much the same way a person would visit a store, consult the Yellow pages or buy magazines in the past.

There is no question the Internet has brought people closer to information - and even closer to brands, but SEO is just a tool to help them get there.

"Branding is Dead" is certainly a compelling headline, and your argument regarding the rise of search is dead on. However, I would have to disagree that branding is "dead." It would be more accurate to suggest that traditional branding agencies are, in fact, dead.

The rise of the Internet as a consumer research tool only negatively impacts brands that do not or cannot live up to their promise. Conversely, previously unknown brands may rise to prominence due to their ability to connect with their customers and just provide a great product or service at a competitive price.

As many have alluded to here, search may get my brand in front of you, but if you have already passed judgment that my brand doesn't appeal to you, that top placement isn't going to be worth the time and cost of SEO or PPC.

So I might argue that branding is just as, if not more important than ever. Other than haggling over budget line-items, I can't see how search can "beat out" branding since they are not mutually exclusive by any stretch.

More to the point, search has influenced the way we think about brands, and it's close cousin (yes) "social marketing," has taken this one step further. End of day our ability to find information places the onus on established brands to live up to their billing. This should mean more emphasis on "online reputation" at the expense of "traditional" high budget brand campaigns. Good for SEO, good for brand, bad for branding agencies who don't pay attention.

I might even argue that a good SEO is actually IN the branding business! And as such, I cannot agree that branding is dead - it's just being watched much closer. . .

I agree there has been massive change in the way people research and decide on which products to buy and SEO is a vital factor in this. However you can't say branding is dead and all people go about buying a product in this way. I previously worked for an affiliate shopping portal, basically we had 200 retailers, every person that shopped in it earned affiliate commission for the charity who owned the particular shop.
We found that despite promoting lesser known merchants who were offering higher commission to the charity and lower prices there was a MASSIVE bias to a small number of big brand names.
The power of brands in online retail is far from dead (sadly)

Search has obviously revolutionized the way in which we can go about obtaining info on our purchase of choice but branding is what makes an inanimate object personal. The difference between searching for a MP3 or an iPod boils down to the lifestyle aspirations attached to the latter; this is achieve purely through the brand.

When I walk into Best Buy to buy the mp3 player on a whim, it's branding that determines what I purchase. Branding and SEO both have long lives ahead of them.

Brands are weakened in the sense that negative information about a company can spread much more quickly now. New brands are easier to start through viral processes. Has anyone mentioned product quality as the basis for a strong brand, not just hocus-pocus or good marketing? That has to be the foundation. iPod might be a great brand, but it got there by having a product that people want to use.

I wouldn't say that branding is out the door. Especially in the b2b market branding means everything to the web searcher. I remember doing a comparison on compete.com of keyword terms that led to visitors going to either BearingPoint or Accenture's websites (two IT Strategy companies). For both companies, over half of the key terms sending in SEO traffic used their brand name. So branding by using external advertisement surely has it's stay in B2B marketing.

I don't fully agree. Brands are still important, and people actively search for brand names, not just generic terms.

In those cases, they may need to find out where to buy the product, or read a review, but the first reason they're even bothering to search is because they already know the brand and are sold on it.

In other cases, SEO has become a component of branding. For example, ranking #1 in Google is an important element of a personal branding strategy. For brands, search engines are just another branding touchpoint.

If you take a way branding, then there go's the sport of NASCAR

Hi guys,

Well a simple rule "Heart" and "Brains" can't be made separate. Same rule for SEO + Branding.

Powerfull SEO + Endless Branding can make the entire world bow down on u,,,,,,,,,

:)

HA HA back on the seo bandwagon again... oh wait, the other blog(s) say it's branding... Let's just say it's say it a god mix of everything and depending on the industry it's one more then the other!

Good points Eli